tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post4349823305170343859..comments2024-03-27T09:17:07.559+00:00Comments on Warhammer For Adults: FFS: Old World Real EstateWeazil the Wisehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00151330356478295441noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-89573246642092907062012-06-07T21:13:10.300+00:002012-06-07T21:13:10.300+00:00*BOJ = Bundle Of Joy*BOJ = Bundle Of JoyWeazil the Wisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151330356478295441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-69133635191172676952012-06-07T21:12:36.758+00:002012-06-07T21:12:36.758+00:00@Simonster - apologies for the late reply - the BO...@Simonster - apologies for the late reply - the BOJ* is struggling to get to sleep, which means that we're struggling to get anything done. <br /><br />Firstly, thanks for the comment - it's great to get the other side of the story. I think you're quite lucky, if 8th ed, is your first WFB experience. You are able to consume the rules with a relatively unbiased view, and I do think the rules have been well written (as in, they're easy to consume and therefore enable one to get into the game quite well). <br /><br />In your post, you mentioned the following:<br /><br />"So you dont like the terrain chart? Fine, dont use it, no ones making you."<br /><br />Unfortunately, this is not my experience. You're right - on paper, I should be able to suggest to someone in a rational manner that the terrain rules don't make sense in this particular case, why don't we two discerning adults make up our own to suit the table and the game? I've never successfully achieved this outcome. Never. <br /><br />And I guess it goes back to my previous comment so generously highlighted by thestarforge - players these days tend to refer any responsibility for their opponent to the ruleset, thus absolving themselves of their own obligation to the opponent and their opponent's enjoyment of the game. When that happens, all you get are players who can't think outside the box anymore, causing a scenario where, if you want to play Warhammer, actually, these players can _make_ you use the terrain chart - the alternative is no Warhammer, or trying to find a different crowd who are more sensible. I explored this route before starting the blog. <br /><br />The fact that this blog is the outcome tells you how that went. The consistent pattern I found in the end is that most open minded gamers, who seemed to think the way I did, and were able to free themselves the ruleset in order to collaborate with their opponent to have fun, were people who played older editions of Warhammer (or other fantasy rule sets- none currently in production).<br /><br />In all of the previous editions of Warhammer, terrain had real tactical implications on the table. Today, I assert that the terrain rules have been unashamedly written to sell GW products. I get that - GW is a business (as pointed out by The One), but I still think they could have written some tactical effects of scenery into the game. It's not as if they had to make new ones up, they have seven previous editions to refer to. <br /><br />@MC Monkey-Dew: What's this I hear? Orcs with guns? Careful mate, the next thing you know, someone will have orcs with guns in space...Weazil the Wisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151330356478295441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-52272619071757905652012-06-06T13:23:36.238+00:002012-06-06T13:23:36.238+00:00Delightful writing as usual!
While I have never p...Delightful writing as usual!<br /><br />While I have never played 8th I always like to think those houses are deserted because the spookiness started after they were built.<br /><br />There is a delightful vampire hunting scenario in one of the compendiums for what, 6th edition? It has a town backed by a haunted burial mound to the northeast and a haunted graveyard to the southeast. Surely they weren't frequented by a Strigoi and ghouls when the place was being built?<br /><br />On a side note been quite intrigued by second edition lately. Just played a game where musket armed orcs were menaced by fanatical spear wielding halflings...<br /><br />Carry on! Fatherhood is the way forward!M. C. Monkey-Dewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10752028120443879663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-4625667124707736912012-06-06T11:48:01.023+00:002012-06-06T11:48:01.023+00:00"By absolving themselves of the responsibilit..."By absolving themselves of the responsibility to the other player (i.e. only responsible to the rules, as it were), these tournament players dismiss any ability to change the game to make it look more sensible."<br /><br />This sums up the entire discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-16311262700722680122012-06-06T05:12:57.940+00:002012-06-06T05:12:57.940+00:00I don't quite get the arguement. Yes, you COUL...I don't quite get the arguement. Yes, you COULD build a giant manor house...or a chapel, watchtower and fence kit. You have to see that this is a deal wich provides you with the majority of a tables required terrain.<br /><br />So you dont like the terrain chart? Fine, dont use it, no ones making you. Walk through that thicket with no penalty. Oh, you want to use magic terrain, but don't like the GW equivelant rules? Make up your own.<br /><br />I'm not rabid GW fanboy, but I just get fed up of people complaining about everything they do. "spoonfeeding hobby" is a fairly new complaint, generally from wizened old gamers who had entire lead regiments marching across their tables on goblin green bases before the internet happened. <br /><br />8th is the first edition I have played, but I have fun doing so as the ruleset has been taken away from the competative nature Gw went with for almost a decade. After years of 40K, I can honestly say 8th is the most fun I've had in this hobby for a long while.Silly houses or millions of skulls or not.Simonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01064036031904433740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-45868362254629013002012-06-05T22:18:21.114+00:002012-06-05T22:18:21.114+00:00Thanks, chaps. Timewise, it would have been closer...Thanks, chaps. Timewise, it would have been closer to the actual discussion thread on LAF, but, you know, new dad and all. At least it was posted in the same season...<br /><br />@Orlygg - you're very right. You have to be skilled with the toolset. In fact, it's that skill, or at least, the desire to attain that skill, that I refer to when I titled this blog 'Warhammer for Adults' - the 'Adults' part very much refers to the attainment of that skill. To be a mature gamer - not in years, but in toolkit, and in the dual responsibility each player has for their opponent and the fun they plan to have. <br /><br />@Starforge - following on from my comment to Orlygg - you're right. By absolving themselves of the responsibility to the other player (i.e. only responsible to the rules, as it were), these tournament players dismiss any ability to change the game to make it look more sensible. Do that enough times and you'll start seeing players becoming creatively impaired, using only the material provided by GW to shape their list. To be honest, how many peopel would bother with fluff if it didn't score points in tournaments?<br /><br />@The One - also a good point about the publicly listed company. Shareholders are some mean bitches. <br /><br />All in all, a very interesting discussion indeed.Weazil the Wisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151330356478295441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-46387296112692479022012-06-05T14:20:08.697+00:002012-06-05T14:20:08.697+00:00A very entertaining read. I enjoyed it, thanks fo...A very entertaining read. I enjoyed it, thanks for posting.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01340813263749275644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-77173545714195326802012-06-05T07:59:56.315+00:002012-06-05T07:59:56.315+00:00I always enjoy your amusing narratives, Gaj, and t...I always enjoy your amusing narratives, Gaj, and this was no exception. Starforge has hit the spot there, spoon fed creativity is something all to prevalent in modern GW games, which is a real shame as it cripples players, modellers and collectors alike. Having prepared and played a number of 3rd games in recent months (after many years of 6th, 7th and 8th) I found the whole experience utterly inspirational (and nostalgic) and rediscovered that sense of freedom that has been sadly lacking for many years. <br /><br />The 3rd edition rulesets have been called toolkits by others, and I feel that this is very true. To truly get the most out of the system (like any craftsman) you have to become proficient, even skilled, with those tools. 3rd edition has also been described as clunky and awkward to play, I disagree with this, it simply needs you to work and prepare on the game in advance, you cannot simply just pick up and play. This, obviously, is sequel to the fact that 3rd was heavily influenced by the 80s roleplaying scene with its abundance of rules, dice rolls and percentage charts.<br /><br />If you are prepared to spend time digesting the rules, creating a scenario, writing up profiles and preparing the models and scenery in a more intelligent way, 3rd edition becomes the most complex and satisfying version of Warhammer playable.Orlygghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01590080915486192175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-8398210727333123752012-06-05T03:11:37.960+00:002012-06-05T03:11:37.960+00:00well written Gaj,
Reminded me of the style my fri...well written Gaj,<br /><br />Reminded me of the style my friends i roleplay in sometimes :)<br /><br />as a side note...i started to write a vent about GW in your comments section Gaj, but decided it would be better placed on the lead adventure thread.<br /><br />cheersMr Papafakishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05449586265828153638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-90653114987187578072012-06-05T02:09:03.438+00:002012-06-05T02:09:03.438+00:00I like the way you think! I have discovered your b...I like the way you think! I have discovered your blog a few months back, and I immediately book marked it. I have lurked around for a few months and just now I have decided to post in reply: <br /><br />I think the 3rd edition was one of the better editions. The new edition (8th)is, shall we say, a step backward in time. While it is easy to dismiss the 8th edition as the same as before with a few tweaks - I think the new releases are vast change of course for Games Workshop and their game of fantasy battles. <br /><br />So while the game, as it is now, is miles away from 1987; GW needs to undue all of the damage it has done over the years. Trying to market their games like a Card Game Tournament has led the newer players to only know a tournament environment- and thus, the players are horribly crippled in the areas of creative story building.<br /><br /> So while the terrain chart is rather silly - it is a building block for those players who need to be spoon-fed every bit of creativity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2034522422050340887.post-72147857868088485082012-06-04T22:46:47.831+00:002012-06-04T22:46:47.831+00:00Good stuff!
That manor house kit is the wrong kind...Good stuff!<br />That manor house kit is the wrong kind of ridiculous.<br /><br />I do kind of like the plastic forest kit though.Timmy Crabcakeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737954661234574830noreply@blogger.com