It's not often you'll see me employ heavy duty expletives around here, especially in the title of the post. I try only swear for emphasis. Know, then, that what you are about to see will be difficult to absorb. I suggest you sit down.
So I've been pottering about with this 3rd edition warhammer malarkey for around two years now.
I started late, so I've had the misfortune of watching the The Great OOP eBay Inflation erode the collectors ability to, well, collect.
Even so, I've been quite pleased with the things I've collected so far. Given the financial, spacial and marital constraints under which I must work, having four OOP oldhammer armies (mostly unpainted, but you already knew that so don't ask!) which all feel as if they have enough figures to be playable armies.
Perhaps your story is similar? Perhaps you're thinking - given the age, rarity and cost of these things, actually, I'm a credible member of that bizarre 80's Citadel Only sub-culture that exists within Oldhammer.
Yeah. that's what I was thought too.
I've come across other sites where the collections are impressive. I know that there are some prolific collectors out there, but so far I've never had any real there's-no-point-in-continuing-because-I'll-never-match-that moments.
Until now.
Go! Go and see. I'll wait for you. Absorb the whole blog. It'll take you 10 minutes. I can wait.
Back?
Need a hug? Cleaned up your ejaculant?
There, there. You can still be a collecter, even if you have one OOP figure. It's not the size of the collection that counts.
But, if you want to be a collector, just know that, unless you commit murder*, your chances of owning 600 painted OOP 80s goblins are basically nil**. Owning that AND a fully-armed-and-operational painted Slann army? That is nil.
When I think of my own paltry goblin related efforts, progress of which I was planning to stage tomorrow, my mind is torn clean in half by the enormity of the fact that even when complete, they will only represent 10% of what I have just seen.
I'm going to go and sit in a corner, hold my knees and rock gently for a while. There will be incoherent mumbling.
*Not an advocate of this, by the way. Murder is a big no-no nowadays.
**And having just said that, I suppose a veritable legion of wealthy-beyond-my-wildest-dreams collectors shall come forth to prove me wrong and further shred my already tortured mind with their division strength collections...
Showing posts with label Warhammer 3 Evangelism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Warhammer 3 Evangelism. Show all posts
Sunday, 7 April 2013
Monday, 12 November 2012
Monday, 13 August 2012
A Damn Good Idea!
You know how you end up hating people because they're cooler than you? No? Just me, then?
Man...I hate you, Private Wierd.
Looking forward to the next one...
Man...I hate you, Private Wierd.
Looking forward to the next one...
Thursday, 12 July 2012
Oldhammer Vintage Rally (cooler name pending)
Well. It appears that young Mr Orlygg has galvanised the internet! Oldhammer T-Shirts? Check. Custom Oldhammer figures? Check! Oldhammer Painting Competition? Check.
I guess we should expect to see the formation of a hair metal band shortly? Possibly the lesser known Bolt Thrower tribute act, Stone Thrower? Organ Gun, perhaps?
Anyway, seeing as how a movement appears to have occurred, I thought I'd pile onto the bandwagon. And, seeing as how our little community quite organically has picked different areas to focus on, I was quite surprised to see the gentle suggestion surface, but not actually be 'grown' any further.
Fortunately, this one has been quite close to my heart, so I'll take it.
I've made reference to the idea of a classiccar warhammer rally before. I believe I've even referred to this on some forums, but I cannot find those discussions right now. Seeing as how all the other stuff is moving along, though, it now seems prudent to suggest just such a thing.
Essentially, a meet up. A classic, warhammer/gw/80's rally. At the end of the day, the thing we all want to do (I suspect) is to actually play these games. I realise that there are others, focussing just on collecting, but I would imagine we would all find kinship if we found ourselves in the same place at the same time.
So heres how I thought about it:
The first problem is that everyone is, well, everywhere.Skarsnik's map will tell you that.
The second problem is that most of us have our own little miniatures at home, who need to be fed, bathed and generally looked after.
The third problem is that a meetup may require some serious logistics - its not just about figures - its about scenery. Tables. Toilets. Parking. Food.
So, intriguingly enough, the answer I ended up with was Warhammer World.
Now I'm not saying that's the only option. That's just the thing that popped into my mind. Let me explain:
I think (if there were enough of us) they would be most forgiving of the older model ranges, including the other non-citadel products that they used to sell at the time. They have the tables, parking, toilets and food that we need, in vast abundance. Although many of us are suspicious of the evil empire, it would be some sort of homage (Pilgrimage? yes I know, it should be to Hammersmith, but they don't have that store anymore) to a different time and I would imagine that it would be garner no small amount of interest from anyone where on the day. I daresay that if we alerted them to what we were doing, GW may even be interested in proceedings.
Also, the fact that they have a pub on site means that we could literally stay there until they close, talking, playing, trading and generally reminiscing of a different time.
Yes, we'd all have to apply for a weekend exit visa, and probably have to pay some money to stay in the dodgy little travelodge next to Warhammer World, but I think if we make an event out of it, it could be done. I've started laying the groundwork with Her Excellency, The Grand Minister of the Interior, and I haven't been shot down yet.
To be clear: not a tournament!
Very much like a classic car rally, really.
So, to put it to the forum: how about such an event? Is it worth it? Would you go? If not Warhammer World, where else?
I guess we should expect to see the formation of a hair metal band shortly? Possibly the lesser known Bolt Thrower tribute act, Stone Thrower? Organ Gun, perhaps?
Anyway, seeing as how a movement appears to have occurred, I thought I'd pile onto the bandwagon. And, seeing as how our little community quite organically has picked different areas to focus on, I was quite surprised to see the gentle suggestion surface, but not actually be 'grown' any further.
Fortunately, this one has been quite close to my heart, so I'll take it.
I've made reference to the idea of a classic
Essentially, a meet up. A classic, warhammer/gw/80's rally. At the end of the day, the thing we all want to do (I suspect) is to actually play these games. I realise that there are others, focussing just on collecting, but I would imagine we would all find kinship if we found ourselves in the same place at the same time.
So heres how I thought about it:
The first problem is that everyone is, well, everywhere.Skarsnik's map will tell you that.
The second problem is that most of us have our own little miniatures at home, who need to be fed, bathed and generally looked after.
The third problem is that a meetup may require some serious logistics - its not just about figures - its about scenery. Tables. Toilets. Parking. Food.
So, intriguingly enough, the answer I ended up with was Warhammer World.
Now I'm not saying that's the only option. That's just the thing that popped into my mind. Let me explain:
I think (if there were enough of us) they would be most forgiving of the older model ranges, including the other non-citadel products that they used to sell at the time. They have the tables, parking, toilets and food that we need, in vast abundance. Although many of us are suspicious of the evil empire, it would be some sort of homage (Pilgrimage? yes I know, it should be to Hammersmith, but they don't have that store anymore) to a different time and I would imagine that it would be garner no small amount of interest from anyone where on the day. I daresay that if we alerted them to what we were doing, GW may even be interested in proceedings.
Also, the fact that they have a pub on site means that we could literally stay there until they close, talking, playing, trading and generally reminiscing of a different time.
Yes, we'd all have to apply for a weekend exit visa, and probably have to pay some money to stay in the dodgy little travelodge next to Warhammer World, but I think if we make an event out of it, it could be done. I've started laying the groundwork with Her Excellency, The Grand Minister of the Interior, and I haven't been shot down yet.
To be clear: not a tournament!
Very much like a classic car rally, really.
So, to put it to the forum: how about such an event? Is it worth it? Would you go? If not Warhammer World, where else?
Monday, 9 July 2012
O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?
I want to talk about finding opponents. I would suggest that my title is a little specific, as I'd be interested in opponents with other names too, as, I'm sure, would you.
Fortunately, our man over in Nottingham, Skarsnik And-Old-Lead (of the Nottinghamshire And-Old-Leads, not the Devonshire And-Old-Leads, who are altogether different people, not to be consulted with at all regarding the location of opponents!) has developed a means of discovering opponents.
He has also focussed on making the thing even more specific, aiming to help us all locate Warhammer 3rd edition opponents (of any name, not just Romeos). If you are looking for martial arts opponents, or political opponents, allow me to suggest that you look elsewhere.
So, if the thing that floats your boat happens to be Warhammer 3rd edition opponents, then our man Skarsnik And-Old-Lead has just the thing for you:
The WFB 3rd Edition Opponent Finder!
Astute readers may also note that I've created a tab designed to connect to this resource as well. Essentially, the thing works like this - you visit the page, post up your approximate location, and Skarsnik will put a little pip on his map which will point out whereabouts on earth you are.
In related news, I was thinking of something similar, in the shape of a player registry. the bit I was missing was the easy visual reference (you know, like a map) at which one could easily gauge the relative distance from a potential opponent. But, the solution does provide something else - a means of establishing contact with each other, without having to leave email addresses or phone numbers just spattered about on the internet. When you do that, people from ex-soviet states will try to get in touch with you to sell you cheap medication, or high quality education at low, low prices, or penis enlargements. Bad business - so you should protect your contact details wherever possible.
This, then, is the registry:
Oldhammer Player Registry
Essentially, it is operated by a free piece of software called Groupspaces, which basically means that it is extremely limited. It's an ugly page, to be sure, but you get what you pay for (nothing, in this case).
The reason that I had not mentioned this earlier is that I was not happy that it was doing the right thing, but now that the missing component has been completed (in the shape of Skarsnik's map), it might, might just fly. Also, note that you cannot peruse the contents of the site until you have applied to join. Membership is granted by a human, who, according to Brussels, are entitled to Human Rights nowadays, so please allow a small period to pass before going postal.
Of course, all suggestions are welcome as regards these things.
Finally, if you happen to be both technically brilliant and bored at the same time, perhaps you could take the time to either merge, or create, a 'thing' that does what these two 'things' are trying to do separately. We, the forum of potential opponents, wait with baited breath...
Fortunately, our man over in Nottingham, Skarsnik And-Old-Lead (of the Nottinghamshire And-Old-Leads, not the Devonshire And-Old-Leads, who are altogether different people, not to be consulted with at all regarding the location of opponents!) has developed a means of discovering opponents.
He has also focussed on making the thing even more specific, aiming to help us all locate Warhammer 3rd edition opponents (of any name, not just Romeos). If you are looking for martial arts opponents, or political opponents, allow me to suggest that you look elsewhere.
So, if the thing that floats your boat happens to be Warhammer 3rd edition opponents, then our man Skarsnik And-Old-Lead has just the thing for you:
The WFB 3rd Edition Opponent Finder!
Astute readers may also note that I've created a tab designed to connect to this resource as well. Essentially, the thing works like this - you visit the page, post up your approximate location, and Skarsnik will put a little pip on his map which will point out whereabouts on earth you are.
In related news, I was thinking of something similar, in the shape of a player registry. the bit I was missing was the easy visual reference (you know, like a map) at which one could easily gauge the relative distance from a potential opponent. But, the solution does provide something else - a means of establishing contact with each other, without having to leave email addresses or phone numbers just spattered about on the internet. When you do that, people from ex-soviet states will try to get in touch with you to sell you cheap medication, or high quality education at low, low prices, or penis enlargements. Bad business - so you should protect your contact details wherever possible.
This, then, is the registry:
Oldhammer Player Registry
Essentially, it is operated by a free piece of software called Groupspaces, which basically means that it is extremely limited. It's an ugly page, to be sure, but you get what you pay for (nothing, in this case).
The reason that I had not mentioned this earlier is that I was not happy that it was doing the right thing, but now that the missing component has been completed (in the shape of Skarsnik's map), it might, might just fly. Also, note that you cannot peruse the contents of the site until you have applied to join. Membership is granted by a human, who, according to Brussels, are entitled to Human Rights nowadays, so please allow a small period to pass before going postal.
Of course, all suggestions are welcome as regards these things.
Finally, if you happen to be both technically brilliant and bored at the same time, perhaps you could take the time to either merge, or create, a 'thing' that does what these two 'things' are trying to do separately. We, the forum of potential opponents, wait with baited breath...
Saturday, 30 June 2012
AB + GW != ©
Last weekend I was contacted by Lone Wolf Development and informed that all GW related data files had to be removed from the datafilecentral. You can read the public announcement at http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=21779.
I moved the WFB3 data files to a new home at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/88045154/wfb3v2.ab.
Is this just another way for GW to alienate themselves even further from their fan base or are they up to something?
I moved the WFB3 data files to a new home at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/88045154/wfb3v2.ab.
Is this just another way for GW to alienate themselves even further from their fan base or are they up to something?
Monday, 18 June 2012
Army Builder: WFB3 - v2.0
Hear ye, hear ye!
Version 2.0 of the WFB3 army builder data files have been published. They can be downloaded through a licensed Army Builder or manually at the Data File Central. Just open the file with AB and follow the installation instructions.
Roster sheets made by previous versions are not compatible with this version. This version includes the following features:
Version 2.0 18th June 2012
Version 2.0 of the WFB3 army builder data files have been published. They can be downloaded through a licensed Army Builder or manually at the Data File Central. Just open the file with AB and follow the installation instructions.
Roster sheets made by previous versions are not compatible with this version. This version includes the following features:
Version 2.0 18th June 2012
- RoC: Added Champions of Chaos of all Chaos Patrons.
- RoC: Added 125 personal Chaos Attributes, except: Chaos Were, Duplication, GM'S Choice, Siamese Twin & Invent Your Own.
- RoC: Added 67 Chaos Gifts, except:Daemon Weapon, Chaos Spawn, The Eye of God.
- RoC: Added Spells & Magic Items of all Chaos Patrons
- General: Categorized spells based on level instead of lore.
- General: Added categories for Race, Abilities and Traits.
- General: Remake of Ld,Int,Cl,WP bonus system.
- General: Fixed incorrect stats.
Submitting Bugs
PLEASE include the race the problem occurs with, and any info I need to reproduce it (e.g. units to add etc.). You can report bugs on this blog post or at http://forums.wolflair.com/forumdisplay.php?f=70.
Enjoy!
Thursday, 14 June 2012
Oh, the (peer) pressure! So, a top 10 list!
For whatever reason, the blogosphere appears to be on steroids. I watch with amazement as people post again and again, sometimes two or three times in one day. Relentlessly, this pace continues, until peer pressure forces me to capitulate, abandoning reason (and sleep - that vital currency which new dads crave so desperately) in order to post my own personal top ten wish list sort of thing. It seems to be popular elsewhere. That said, I refuse to post my desired army lists. That resource is a rich vein of untapped goodness, that we shall explore another time.
Of course, you have no notion of a top ten. Or, because your lust for lead is insatiable, your top ten only refers to the top ten you're thinking about right now - this very second. Already, your mind is filled with despair at only being able to choose ten, so you've just reshuffled it, haven't you? In ten seconds, you've re-arranged a hundred figures in your head.
Anyway, It seems there are some common contenders. My number 10 is one of those:
I am collecting a High Elf army. It must have one of these chariots. It can't have more than one.
That's just weird.
I don't think these chaps are that hard to get hold of, but I've just had to focus my money on other things, higher up in the list.
I also love the mounted elves - very specifically, the three mounted generals (top row). I have one, but I need the other two. I have had opportunities to acquire these, but again, money has been routed elsewhere.
Really? I have to explain?
Yes, I also fantasise about the Man Mangler and the Skull Crusher, but this "poor man's" Man Mangler has always stood out to me.
A Marauder figure. It's just such an unexpected combination. I had the option to buy one of these once. Idiot.
I've already got a Tenderiser. The Whirlwind is really to complete the collection. Also, it looks cooler.
Now things start to get interesting. I never saw any of the Kaleb Daark stories, so I know nothing about these characters. But, having seen them, I think they're great. Must get the whole set!
Another common one. I don't have any slann. But, compared to the giant floating frogs of the current lizardman range, this figure is pure gold. A must have for the discerning (and wealthy) collector.
The pre-slotta Lothern City Guard. Not to be confused with the Lothern Sea Guard, although these are no doubt the progenitors of that unit. Again, part of that High Elf fetish I have. A lovely chunk of history, methinks.
You look surprised?
Of course, you have no notion of a top ten. Or, because your lust for lead is insatiable, your top ten only refers to the top ten you're thinking about right now - this very second. Already, your mind is filled with despair at only being able to choose ten, so you've just reshuffled it, haven't you? In ten seconds, you've re-arranged a hundred figures in your head.
Anyway, It seems there are some common contenders. My number 10 is one of those:
10: Elven Attack Chariot
I am collecting a High Elf army. It must have one of these chariots. It can't have more than one.
That's just weird.
I don't think these chaps are that hard to get hold of, but I've just had to focus my money on other things, higher up in the list.
9: Mounted Elven Generals
8: Skaven General With Warplock Rifle
Really? I have to explain?
7: Iron Claw Stone Thrower
Yes, I also fantasise about the Man Mangler and the Skull Crusher, but this "poor man's" Man Mangler has always stood out to me.
6: Chaos General on War Griffon
A Marauder figure. It's just such an unexpected combination. I had the option to buy one of these once. Idiot.
5: Chaos Dwarf Whirlwind
I've already got a Tenderiser. The Whirlwind is really to complete the collection. Also, it looks cooler.
4: Helwud and Jaek
Now things start to get interesting. I never saw any of the Kaleb Daark stories, so I know nothing about these characters. But, having seen them, I think they're great. Must get the whole set!
3: Slann Wizard
Another common one. I don't have any slann. But, compared to the giant floating frogs of the current lizardman range, this figure is pure gold. A must have for the discerning (and wealthy) collector.
2: The Lothern City Guard
The pre-slotta Lothern City Guard. Not to be confused with the Lothern Sea Guard, although these are no doubt the progenitors of that unit. Again, part of that High Elf fetish I have. A lovely chunk of history, methinks.
1: Heinrich Kemler and Grimwald
You look surprised?
Tuesday, 13 March 2012
Warhammer 2nd ed (40k, they think) in the news...Good Work, BBC
This is a very interesting article. Go and read it now.
Top element of this was the fact that the first mention of an individual actually related to GW in any way is Gary Chalk and a reference to the 80's and Orc's Drift. That's not a problem, Gary's great and represents a wonderful era of the company. This is what was said about him:
Gary Chalk, a 59-year-old fantasy game creator and illustrator, knows all about its Britishness. He used to design Warhammer and Warhammer 40K games in the 1980s and 90s. His trademark wit is evident in Bloodbath at Orc's Drift (an elvish version of the Michael Caine film Zulu) and a naval ship battle he called "All the Dwarves Love a Sailor". Still an enthusiastic table-top gamer, he does, however, believe Games Workshop uses its monopoly on the products to target and exploit increasingly younger fans.
The prices for essential models, paints and books are "eyewatering", he says.
Cheers to you, Mr Chalk! And thanks for Orc's Drift. And all the other stuff you've done. Even if that didn't really have anything to do with 40k.
The article continues:
And Chalk claims the game is now less interesting. "The original rules were about fantasy combat and creating character. Now the rules only work within their imaginary world, with their figures and it cuts out all the other influences."
GW did offer some sort of defence:
Games Workshop's executives say they don't do media interviews, preferring to focus on their hobbyists. But chief executive officer Mark Wells emails me about the claim of price exploitation. "That would go against everything we stand for. It's just not in our nature," he writes.
The sentence that I'm really interested in is this one '...preferring to focus on their hobbyists' - I can't imagine they focus so thoroughly that they can't do a media interview? Don't they have a PR department?
Anyway, credit where credit is due, well done to GW: it is still better that you don't go out of business, actually. I just wish you were nicer to us, is all.
And listen to Gary - make your games more interesting.
Monday, 23 January 2012
Warhammer for Children
We're nearly almost about to be on the brink of possibly considering the eventuality of completing turn 1 of the Battle of Koles Lorr. Patience, my pretties... patience. We've had a bit of a learning curve considering the long distances this game must pass, as well as some of the idiosyncrasies of the armies in play. We move ever onwards.
But in the meantime, I've been chatting on and off with Chris, of Chris's Gaming Journal. In our myriad of discussions about various different elements of Warhammer, he got me thinking about other editions of the game and its development.
That, in turn, got me to thinking about what I meant when I titled the blog 'Warhammer For Adults'. Of course, I have a whole page on that, but I guess the thing is still focussed on 3rd edition and was written when I was experiencing some ...frustration.
I guess I needed a hug.
Anyway, I thought I'd go into a more analytical look at what I mean when I refer to Warhammer For Adults. I can think of three points to make:
The first thing that got me onto this blog was simply my interpretation of the Warhammer 8 rules. Fundamentally, I felt that they were a dumbing down of the fine institution of Warhammer. I know there were a lot of problems with army books and game balance in the 6th and 7th edition, but I still felt the core ruleset was pretty solid. Warhammer 8 was generally a poor follow up from 6th and 7th.
I don't think that because I found I had a killer army that suddenly became ineffective. I've never played a tournament winning army (which is not to say I haven't won tournaments). I genuinely think that Warhammer 8 has been written first and foremost to sell figures, and to do that, it has been written to be accessible to anyone. Anyone. Not too sure how to tie you shoelaces? That's okay, we know that's complicated, but fortunately you can still play Warhammer. Still wondering who that person who lives on the other side of the silver window in your bathroom is and why they keep doing everything you do when you're in there? That's deep, but fortunately, you can still play Warhammer.
I'm not trying to make Warhammer exclusive, but one should assume that there is some sort of mental commitment required by those aspiring to play the game. One assumes football requires a basic level of fitness and hand-eye co-ordination, but they don't change the rules to say that players should only walk in order to make it more accessible.
I feel that the Warhammer 8 rule set has just crossed this 'simplicity' line. Chances are, if I was new, I wouldn't know the difference, but in my case, I've seen better, more engaging rules (not just 3rd ed, now, I mean 6th and 7th), so I know GW are capable of more.
This brings me to my second point. The Warhammer rule set is now developed with tournament play as its priority. True, in Warhammer 8, they've included a whole battle report in which a GM is used to help run the game. There are sections at the back looking at narrative and special scenarios looking at some non-standard scenarios. These are not present in older versions of Warhammer. My question, then, is why the hell have I not seen them in play? Ever?*
*I'm not saying they aren't played - but I confess, in the year or so that I've had a go at Warhammer 8, I never got to play them. And that's not for a lack of trying.
Simply, I think that people are so taken with the 'ease' of relying on the rules to direct how they should interact with each other (often in a situation where they don't really know each other, such as tournaments) that they just don't explore the possibilities. This leads to a situation where the rule set becomes a limiter, not an enabler. There is a small, but important difference between the questions 'My rule set seems to suggest we have this option, how do you feel about that?' and 'My rule set seems to suggest that we have this option, why are you deviating from it?'
This expectation that players have of each other to limit themselves to the rules, which are then supposed to have a common interpretation. Did you laugh just then? When I said common interpretation? Of course its impossible. The vast bulk of Warhammer forums on the internet exist to facilitate rules discussion between anonymous people, who appear to be hell bent on ensuring that everyone out there agrees with their interpretation of the rules. Some of these discussions take on court-case like proportions, where people submit precedents set by other rules and quote battle reports from White Dwarf as evidence of their understanding and why their position should be 'judged' the correct one.
Note that I've not discussed behaviour at actual tournaments - I'm just talking about the tournament-like or tournament-ready usage of the rules in supposedly friendly games where the players have control over the entire scope of the game. Whilst I'm not prepared to excuse tournaments (don't get me started on tournaments and the 'have fun or else' attitude that seems to permeate them, that's for another day), I can still understand that players might get a bit more competitive if they have something to win. I'm much less clear on why you have to win by quoting rules when its a friendly game between two supposed adults with nothing other than fun as the motivation.
Consider this example I've lifted recently from the forums. Bear in mind that I am aware of the dangers of just using internet forum examples, because I don't know the whole context of the discussion, and I will most likely never actually know the people or the circumstances. Also, I have no ill will to any of the people involved. I just feel sorry for them. In this case, one player succumbed to the deployment rules and tried his level best to meet their requirements. His opponent just let him. It is my assertion that two adults would have looked at the situation and said something like 'its a bit silly to deploy this way, what would it actually look like?' or 'I wonder if I can construct some sort of narrative that might explain why they would deploy this way.' I was pleased to note that the first response suggested as much, but the fact that the post exists at all is testament to the problem with tournament systems and thinking. That same forum is rammed full of questions about what happens when rule A meets rule B and ways of either getting around the limitation or deriving the most extreme exploitation of that rule combination, again, with the express intention of winning.
My third point takes a comparative look at Warhammer 3. Taking a look at the books of the time - Warhammer 3, The Realms of Chaos books and Rogue Trader, one would be hard pressed to get any coherent rules out of them. Simply put, the rules are terribly written. I'm talking plain, bad english, which is ambiguous and in some cases, incomplete. In spite of these limitations, every single rule is pregnant with possibility, simply because it is ambiguous. Players have no choice but to stop and consider what the hell the designer was trying to say. In the end, most players of this time ended up looking at narrative to get through.
And lets not kid ourselves - there is no rule set in the Warhammer stable that could be exploited more than Warhammer 3. Check it out - you can have a magic sword that automatically hits, automatically wounds, denies your opponent any armour save, and will kill him outright if a wound is scored. A level 25 wizard can summon an elemental onto the table. Do you know an elemental's stat line when it arrives? Put 10 in each column. That's right - it moves 10", has a Toughness of 10 and has 10 wounds. You don't pay points for these things - a wizard just summons one.
Even Warhammer 3 cheese is for adults.
My point is that because the rule set depends on player co-operation (as opposed to player competition) and was designed with the idea of having a GM in place to help, players are immediately less likely to get stuck on rules, because they need to resort to something other than just the rule definition in order to explain what is happening. Most players of the era would be more comfortable having an elemental on the table than any Warhammer 8 player (using that rule set means you don't even have to be afraid of it because you always wound on a 6 now anyway). They would find a good narrative reason to have such a thing on the table, and then, as if by magic, would be able to include in that narrative a hero, or villian, or some other similar fantastic creature in order to counter it. Or it would only be available for a random number of turns. Players would resort to narrative to sort out the evident power problem.
That said, you don't need the Warhammer 3 rule set to do that. It's just that its most evident in players who hold to Warhammer 3 standards, because the rule set is so badly written. Take note of what I say - the players use narrative in order to compensate for the rules. Do you play Warhammer 6? You could use narrative to compensate for the rules. Do you play Warhammer 8? You can use narrative.
Think about the forum post mentioned above, where the poor bastard had to deploy his whole army in between the imaginary lines on the field. Could they not have re-arranged the scenery to suggest that there was only a narrow defile in which the army ended up entering the field? The narrative would simply be the opposing force knew that was a bottle neck and had set up in expectation of their arrival. I haven't even written a line of fiction to explain that. That's not even narrative.
Consider this for a parting shot: in the Realms of Chaos books, the points cost for greater daemons (you know, bloodthirsters, keepers of secrets - that sort of thing) are listed for a sense of completeness. One doesn't pay points for them - you simply agree with your opponent how many you will have. If your head just exploded, that's because you're still playing Warhammer for Children.
For more on Warhammer for Adults, check out The Oldhammer Contract and these comments on the 40K OSR over at Tales from the Maelstrom.
But in the meantime, I've been chatting on and off with Chris, of Chris's Gaming Journal. In our myriad of discussions about various different elements of Warhammer, he got me thinking about other editions of the game and its development.
That, in turn, got me to thinking about what I meant when I titled the blog 'Warhammer For Adults'. Of course, I have a whole page on that, but I guess the thing is still focussed on 3rd edition and was written when I was experiencing some ...frustration.
I guess I needed a hug.
Anyway, I thought I'd go into a more analytical look at what I mean when I refer to Warhammer For Adults. I can think of three points to make:
The first thing that got me onto this blog was simply my interpretation of the Warhammer 8 rules. Fundamentally, I felt that they were a dumbing down of the fine institution of Warhammer. I know there were a lot of problems with army books and game balance in the 6th and 7th edition, but I still felt the core ruleset was pretty solid. Warhammer 8 was generally a poor follow up from 6th and 7th.
I don't think that because I found I had a killer army that suddenly became ineffective. I've never played a tournament winning army (which is not to say I haven't won tournaments). I genuinely think that Warhammer 8 has been written first and foremost to sell figures, and to do that, it has been written to be accessible to anyone. Anyone. Not too sure how to tie you shoelaces? That's okay, we know that's complicated, but fortunately you can still play Warhammer. Still wondering who that person who lives on the other side of the silver window in your bathroom is and why they keep doing everything you do when you're in there? That's deep, but fortunately, you can still play Warhammer.
I'm not trying to make Warhammer exclusive, but one should assume that there is some sort of mental commitment required by those aspiring to play the game. One assumes football requires a basic level of fitness and hand-eye co-ordination, but they don't change the rules to say that players should only walk in order to make it more accessible.
I feel that the Warhammer 8 rule set has just crossed this 'simplicity' line. Chances are, if I was new, I wouldn't know the difference, but in my case, I've seen better, more engaging rules (not just 3rd ed, now, I mean 6th and 7th), so I know GW are capable of more.
This brings me to my second point. The Warhammer rule set is now developed with tournament play as its priority. True, in Warhammer 8, they've included a whole battle report in which a GM is used to help run the game. There are sections at the back looking at narrative and special scenarios looking at some non-standard scenarios. These are not present in older versions of Warhammer. My question, then, is why the hell have I not seen them in play? Ever?*
*I'm not saying they aren't played - but I confess, in the year or so that I've had a go at Warhammer 8, I never got to play them. And that's not for a lack of trying.
Simply, I think that people are so taken with the 'ease' of relying on the rules to direct how they should interact with each other (often in a situation where they don't really know each other, such as tournaments) that they just don't explore the possibilities. This leads to a situation where the rule set becomes a limiter, not an enabler. There is a small, but important difference between the questions 'My rule set seems to suggest we have this option, how do you feel about that?' and 'My rule set seems to suggest that we have this option, why are you deviating from it?'
This expectation that players have of each other to limit themselves to the rules, which are then supposed to have a common interpretation. Did you laugh just then? When I said common interpretation? Of course its impossible. The vast bulk of Warhammer forums on the internet exist to facilitate rules discussion between anonymous people, who appear to be hell bent on ensuring that everyone out there agrees with their interpretation of the rules. Some of these discussions take on court-case like proportions, where people submit precedents set by other rules and quote battle reports from White Dwarf as evidence of their understanding and why their position should be 'judged' the correct one.
Note that I've not discussed behaviour at actual tournaments - I'm just talking about the tournament-like or tournament-ready usage of the rules in supposedly friendly games where the players have control over the entire scope of the game. Whilst I'm not prepared to excuse tournaments (don't get me started on tournaments and the 'have fun or else' attitude that seems to permeate them, that's for another day), I can still understand that players might get a bit more competitive if they have something to win. I'm much less clear on why you have to win by quoting rules when its a friendly game between two supposed adults with nothing other than fun as the motivation.
Consider this example I've lifted recently from the forums. Bear in mind that I am aware of the dangers of just using internet forum examples, because I don't know the whole context of the discussion, and I will most likely never actually know the people or the circumstances. Also, I have no ill will to any of the people involved. I just feel sorry for them. In this case, one player succumbed to the deployment rules and tried his level best to meet their requirements. His opponent just let him. It is my assertion that two adults would have looked at the situation and said something like 'its a bit silly to deploy this way, what would it actually look like?' or 'I wonder if I can construct some sort of narrative that might explain why they would deploy this way.' I was pleased to note that the first response suggested as much, but the fact that the post exists at all is testament to the problem with tournament systems and thinking. That same forum is rammed full of questions about what happens when rule A meets rule B and ways of either getting around the limitation or deriving the most extreme exploitation of that rule combination, again, with the express intention of winning.
My third point takes a comparative look at Warhammer 3. Taking a look at the books of the time - Warhammer 3, The Realms of Chaos books and Rogue Trader, one would be hard pressed to get any coherent rules out of them. Simply put, the rules are terribly written. I'm talking plain, bad english, which is ambiguous and in some cases, incomplete. In spite of these limitations, every single rule is pregnant with possibility, simply because it is ambiguous. Players have no choice but to stop and consider what the hell the designer was trying to say. In the end, most players of this time ended up looking at narrative to get through.
And lets not kid ourselves - there is no rule set in the Warhammer stable that could be exploited more than Warhammer 3. Check it out - you can have a magic sword that automatically hits, automatically wounds, denies your opponent any armour save, and will kill him outright if a wound is scored. A level 25 wizard can summon an elemental onto the table. Do you know an elemental's stat line when it arrives? Put 10 in each column. That's right - it moves 10", has a Toughness of 10 and has 10 wounds. You don't pay points for these things - a wizard just summons one.
Even Warhammer 3 cheese is for adults.
My point is that because the rule set depends on player co-operation (as opposed to player competition) and was designed with the idea of having a GM in place to help, players are immediately less likely to get stuck on rules, because they need to resort to something other than just the rule definition in order to explain what is happening. Most players of the era would be more comfortable having an elemental on the table than any Warhammer 8 player (using that rule set means you don't even have to be afraid of it because you always wound on a 6 now anyway). They would find a good narrative reason to have such a thing on the table, and then, as if by magic, would be able to include in that narrative a hero, or villian, or some other similar fantastic creature in order to counter it. Or it would only be available for a random number of turns. Players would resort to narrative to sort out the evident power problem.
That said, you don't need the Warhammer 3 rule set to do that. It's just that its most evident in players who hold to Warhammer 3 standards, because the rule set is so badly written. Take note of what I say - the players use narrative in order to compensate for the rules. Do you play Warhammer 6? You could use narrative to compensate for the rules. Do you play Warhammer 8? You can use narrative.
Think about the forum post mentioned above, where the poor bastard had to deploy his whole army in between the imaginary lines on the field. Could they not have re-arranged the scenery to suggest that there was only a narrow defile in which the army ended up entering the field? The narrative would simply be the opposing force knew that was a bottle neck and had set up in expectation of their arrival. I haven't even written a line of fiction to explain that. That's not even narrative.
Consider this for a parting shot: in the Realms of Chaos books, the points cost for greater daemons (you know, bloodthirsters, keepers of secrets - that sort of thing) are listed for a sense of completeness. One doesn't pay points for them - you simply agree with your opponent how many you will have. If your head just exploded, that's because you're still playing Warhammer for Children.
For more on Warhammer for Adults, check out The Oldhammer Contract and these comments on the 40K OSR over at Tales from the Maelstrom.
Thursday, 28 July 2011
Introducing: Dreamfish
It turns out that starting a blog has payed off. I'm not much closer to playing a WFB3 game here in the New Forest, but I am meeting new and interesting people who have a matching dedication and desire to see WFB3 played again.
So, ladies (yeah, right...) and gentlemen, I am thrilled to introduce to you a new contributor to Warhammer For Adults:
Dreamfish hails from the Netherlands and his primary claim to fame is that he is the author of the Army Builder files for Warhammer Fantasy Battles 3rd Edition. He has also created a detailed 'cheat sheet' for WFB3 and is well versed in the secret lore contained in the White Dwarves from the WFB3 era (roughly WD ~90 to ~155 or so). He has kindly agreed to become a contributor to the site, where I hope that he will share his love of WFB3, the Army Builder updates and his love of Marauder Dwarves.
So, ladies (yeah, right...) and gentlemen, I am thrilled to introduce to you a new contributor to Warhammer For Adults:
Dreamfish hails from the Netherlands and his primary claim to fame is that he is the author of the Army Builder files for Warhammer Fantasy Battles 3rd Edition. He has also created a detailed 'cheat sheet' for WFB3 and is well versed in the secret lore contained in the White Dwarves from the WFB3 era (roughly WD ~90 to ~155 or so). He has kindly agreed to become a contributor to the site, where I hope that he will share his love of WFB3, the Army Builder updates and his love of Marauder Dwarves.
Tuesday, 31 May 2011
Hear, hear!
Just came across this post about old school gaming. It's 40K related, which is not a system that I'm very interested in, but I've recently acquired the Rogue Trader rulebook in the hopes that, like 3rd Edition Warhammer, Rogue Trader is immeasurably better than it's current incarnation.
This is why I liked the post:
I’d back this up by observing how people fixate over the wording of rules, rather than over the possibilities they present, and how some people are always saying that ‘they’ understand the rule, but that ‘someone else’ may not.
This quote summarises everything that is wrong with modern gaming today. People interpret the rules as restrictions, instead of possibilities. This is caused by tournaments, in my opinion. I'm not a big fan of wargames tournaments, because I think they encourage exactly this sort of behaviour - warhammer forums everywhere are inundated with posts about how someone interprets this spell or applies that effect when the unit is fleeing through difficult terrain. There are discussions about how people 'discover' loopholes in the system, allowing them to use such-and-such magic item with such-and-such monster and therefore creating the most powerful character in the history of gaming. Just before I quit 8th, I noticed how everyone always had the same sorts of armies, always ready for tournament play. If I arrived with an unusual size (1,000 pts the last time I went), people would first try and cajole me into upping the points allowance I was using so that I could match their tournament standard (2,500 or 2,400 pts, it seems?).
I can't help thinking these people are missing the point.
This all got me thinking about what the good sides of tournaments are. Essentially, the bit that everyone loves is the opportunity to meet someone new and play someone whose tactics and approach you don't know. Apart from that, I can't really see the good bit. The scenarios are made up or taken directly from the book and contain little or no narrative - any that is present has no imagination whatsoever.
So that in turn got me thinking.
Although people race modern cars, no-one really races classic cars anymore. Actually, that's rather a sweeping and uninformed statement. I don't know that because I don't attend classic car rallies, own a classic car or know anyone who does, so I could be wrong. But you get the picture.
Rather, there are shows and rallies - events that are just as interesting and allow the enthusiasts to dote over each others cars and stories, but in a spirit of co-operation, rather than competition. Now I wonder if the same could be done for something like Warhammer? Have we reached the place where one could have a Warhammer 3rd Edition 'Rally'? Organise games with classic figures and classic army lists, all games-mastered. Each table could be set up by it's own games-master, who owns that table for the day and narrates the games played on that table. Of course, people would play against each other, but not for any grand prize at the end - just the kudos of knowing that Warhammer was played the way it was meant to be played, along with like minded players that would rather explore what they could do, than what they couldn't do...
This is why I liked the post:
I’d back this up by observing how people fixate over the wording of rules, rather than over the possibilities they present, and how some people are always saying that ‘they’ understand the rule, but that ‘someone else’ may not.
This quote summarises everything that is wrong with modern gaming today. People interpret the rules as restrictions, instead of possibilities. This is caused by tournaments, in my opinion. I'm not a big fan of wargames tournaments, because I think they encourage exactly this sort of behaviour - warhammer forums everywhere are inundated with posts about how someone interprets this spell or applies that effect when the unit is fleeing through difficult terrain. There are discussions about how people 'discover' loopholes in the system, allowing them to use such-and-such magic item with such-and-such monster and therefore creating the most powerful character in the history of gaming. Just before I quit 8th, I noticed how everyone always had the same sorts of armies, always ready for tournament play. If I arrived with an unusual size (1,000 pts the last time I went), people would first try and cajole me into upping the points allowance I was using so that I could match their tournament standard (2,500 or 2,400 pts, it seems?).
I can't help thinking these people are missing the point.
This all got me thinking about what the good sides of tournaments are. Essentially, the bit that everyone loves is the opportunity to meet someone new and play someone whose tactics and approach you don't know. Apart from that, I can't really see the good bit. The scenarios are made up or taken directly from the book and contain little or no narrative - any that is present has no imagination whatsoever.
So that in turn got me thinking.
Although people race modern cars, no-one really races classic cars anymore. Actually, that's rather a sweeping and uninformed statement. I don't know that because I don't attend classic car rallies, own a classic car or know anyone who does, so I could be wrong. But you get the picture.
Rather, there are shows and rallies - events that are just as interesting and allow the enthusiasts to dote over each others cars and stories, but in a spirit of co-operation, rather than competition. Now I wonder if the same could be done for something like Warhammer? Have we reached the place where one could have a Warhammer 3rd Edition 'Rally'? Organise games with classic figures and classic army lists, all games-mastered. Each table could be set up by it's own games-master, who owns that table for the day and narrates the games played on that table. Of course, people would play against each other, but not for any grand prize at the end - just the kudos of knowing that Warhammer was played the way it was meant to be played, along with like minded players that would rather explore what they could do, than what they couldn't do...
Sunday, 22 May 2011
Realm of Chaos: a bit more manual than I expected...
When I started in this direction, I wasn't really all that taken with Chaos. It was just a way of getting some more interesting and different models into the Undead army, and the Orcs & Goblins that are forming in the background.
Then, I came across the digital copies of the Realm of Chaos books. As discussed earlier, I spent some time creating a Champion of Chaos and generally mucking about with the books. Since then...well.
I've been infatuated with them.
So much so, that I've diverted the large bulk of my model fund in order to buy them:
My digital copy of The Lost and The Damned was a little corrupted, so I wasn't able to see certain sections of it (like the Tzeentch army list), but I was able to get enough from it to take action when it came up on eBay.
The main reason for this sudden infatuation is around my other main objective of this blog: Warhammer 3rd Edition evangelism. I've tried to get Warhammer 3 going, but at the club, most people are more interested in 40K, or trying to get their fantasy armies ready for tournaments. Don't even get me started on why I think that tournaments are single-handedly responsible for everything wrong in wargaming today. In short, interest was low to start with, and now its dwindling. Also, sickness has prevented me going for a few weeks, so ...out of sight, out of mind for them, no doubt.
But, one of the things that really grabbed me is that one can play skirmish games with these rules. A large portion of Realms of Chaos is around the progression of your Chaos Champion and how he and his little retinue develop. What better way to learn the good sense of Warhammer 3, then to play it in small skirmish games, where the various individual little rules come into their own?
Also, I quite like the idea of the Champion and his Retinue being the seed of a Chaos Army - a great way to get painting something that can be played with almost immediately, but can also grow into a beautiful army. A lot of Khorne on those two blogs.
I am sort of interested in a Nurgle army at the moment, mainly because a Nurgle army can include undead units in it and can also make use of the Plague Cart that I've recently acquired. That said, I was very disappointed to note that the format and general quality of The Lost and The Damned (which has the Nurgle and Tzeentch lists in it) was dramatically different to the other 3rd edition books - in fact, it is evidently the predecessor to the current army book format we have been forced to endure since Warhammer 4th edition onwards. I refer to the quality because it seems like various elements and rules that were present in Slaves to Darkness (and relevant to those armies) appear to have just been left out. Also, it looks like The Lost and The Damned is the first book to experience some serious power-creep - the magic items available here run rings around anything available in the other books.
That's got me thinking that I'd rather build an army from the Slaves to Darkness book instead.
So...given that there's so much Khorne going around at the moment, I wonder if I shouldn't look at Slaanesh instead? Now what the hell am I supposed to do with that Juggernaught that's just arrived?
Then, I came across the digital copies of the Realm of Chaos books. As discussed earlier, I spent some time creating a Champion of Chaos and generally mucking about with the books. Since then...well.
I've been infatuated with them.
So much so, that I've diverted the large bulk of my model fund in order to buy them:
My digital copy of The Lost and The Damned was a little corrupted, so I wasn't able to see certain sections of it (like the Tzeentch army list), but I was able to get enough from it to take action when it came up on eBay.
The main reason for this sudden infatuation is around my other main objective of this blog: Warhammer 3rd Edition evangelism. I've tried to get Warhammer 3 going, but at the club, most people are more interested in 40K, or trying to get their fantasy armies ready for tournaments. Don't even get me started on why I think that tournaments are single-handedly responsible for everything wrong in wargaming today. In short, interest was low to start with, and now its dwindling. Also, sickness has prevented me going for a few weeks, so ...out of sight, out of mind for them, no doubt.
But, one of the things that really grabbed me is that one can play skirmish games with these rules. A large portion of Realms of Chaos is around the progression of your Chaos Champion and how he and his little retinue develop. What better way to learn the good sense of Warhammer 3, then to play it in small skirmish games, where the various individual little rules come into their own?
Also, I quite like the idea of the Champion and his Retinue being the seed of a Chaos Army - a great way to get painting something that can be played with almost immediately, but can also grow into a beautiful army. A lot of Khorne on those two blogs.
I am sort of interested in a Nurgle army at the moment, mainly because a Nurgle army can include undead units in it and can also make use of the Plague Cart that I've recently acquired. That said, I was very disappointed to note that the format and general quality of The Lost and The Damned (which has the Nurgle and Tzeentch lists in it) was dramatically different to the other 3rd edition books - in fact, it is evidently the predecessor to the current army book format we have been forced to endure since Warhammer 4th edition onwards. I refer to the quality because it seems like various elements and rules that were present in Slaves to Darkness (and relevant to those armies) appear to have just been left out. Also, it looks like The Lost and The Damned is the first book to experience some serious power-creep - the magic items available here run rings around anything available in the other books.
That's got me thinking that I'd rather build an army from the Slaves to Darkness book instead.
So...given that there's so much Khorne going around at the moment, I wonder if I shouldn't look at Slaanesh instead? Now what the hell am I supposed to do with that Juggernaught that's just arrived?
Wednesday, 16 March 2011
3rd Ed. Evangelism
Finding old figures from the 80's with which to play the 3rd edition of Warhammer is not the greatest challenge facing Warhammer 3 players today. It is challenging*, make no bones about it, but it is not the greatest challenge. Indeed, the greatest challenge is this: finding old players from the 80's with whom one can play the 3rd edition of Warhammer.
Having pried open the history of the various gaming compatriots at the club and in my immediate vicinity, I was horrified to realise that I alone had experienced the joy of 3rd edition - the most experienced of these poor bastards could only make reference to the 4th edition...they could go no further. My friends, it is a horrible, horrible feeling to be alone.
So what now?
My plan, then, is to engage in powerful, passionate, inspiring, invigorating, galvanizing evangelism! How can these poor sods possibly know the full joy of Warhammer 3? I shall have to bring it to them, of course!
Which leads me to last night. I thought that instead of going to the club armed with figures, I would bring literature. More specifically, the 3rd edition rules. The plan was basically this - watch a game of warhammer, moan about how stupid the magic/army composition/fear rules were and then launch into a carefully prepared sales pitch on the sheer brilliance of Warhammer 3.
I showed them the following:
Some of those Warhammer 4 players recalled Heinrich Kemmler, and nodded sagely to themselves as they recalled an Undead army before the days of the split - when Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings were created to cause catastrophe amongst established undead armies everywhere. Of course, how could they know he had a 2nd edition Warhammer scenario all about him...
Interestingly enough, a lot of players seemed to recall The Battle for Orks Drift - a Warhammer 40K scenario.
No one could draw any frame of reference to McDeath, but the writing is good...
Of course, I also showed them the Warhammer Armies book. Imagine their surprise when they realised that there was a time (before the current GW Army Book roll-out) when all the armies, and the allies, and the mercenaries...were all in one book. I think that single fact impressed more than anything else.
Well, until they saw the Chaos Warriors:
2 Wounds? Each?**
The other thing that really stood out for the youngsters was the fact that the Slann were actually a whole army.
Anyway, I think I've started grooming a follower. Who knows, perhaps I'll play 3rd edition with someone before the summer!
* Of course, you can still use modern figures to play 3rd edition. If you must.
** I'm not saying its fair...but I've gotta sell it somehow!
Having pried open the history of the various gaming compatriots at the club and in my immediate vicinity, I was horrified to realise that I alone had experienced the joy of 3rd edition - the most experienced of these poor bastards could only make reference to the 4th edition...they could go no further. My friends, it is a horrible, horrible feeling to be alone.
So what now?
My plan, then, is to engage in powerful, passionate, inspiring, invigorating, galvanizing evangelism! How can these poor sods possibly know the full joy of Warhammer 3? I shall have to bring it to them, of course!
Which leads me to last night. I thought that instead of going to the club armed with figures, I would bring literature. More specifically, the 3rd edition rules. The plan was basically this - watch a game of warhammer, moan about how stupid the magic/army composition/fear rules were and then launch into a carefully prepared sales pitch on the sheer brilliance of Warhammer 3.
I showed them the following:
Some of those Warhammer 4 players recalled Heinrich Kemmler, and nodded sagely to themselves as they recalled an Undead army before the days of the split - when Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings were created to cause catastrophe amongst established undead armies everywhere. Of course, how could they know he had a 2nd edition Warhammer scenario all about him...
Interestingly enough, a lot of players seemed to recall The Battle for Orks Drift - a Warhammer 40K scenario.
No one could draw any frame of reference to McDeath, but the writing is good...
Of course, I also showed them the Warhammer Armies book. Imagine their surprise when they realised that there was a time (before the current GW Army Book roll-out) when all the armies, and the allies, and the mercenaries...were all in one book. I think that single fact impressed more than anything else.
Well, until they saw the Chaos Warriors:
2 Wounds? Each?**
The other thing that really stood out for the youngsters was the fact that the Slann were actually a whole army.
Anyway, I think I've started grooming a follower. Who knows, perhaps I'll play 3rd edition with someone before the summer!
* Of course, you can still use modern figures to play 3rd edition. If you must.
** I'm not saying its fair...but I've gotta sell it somehow!
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